Jonathan Ballou: “I am grateful for any feedback”

Text: Martin Obermayr | Photos: Aspen Skiing Company

Jonathan Ballou runs one of the world's largest ski and snowboard schools. In Aspen Snowmass, Colorado, he's responsible for more than 1,200 ski and snowboard instructors. We met with him, and he told us what fascinates him so much about snow sports: from e-learning and unforgettable experiences in nature to the essential collaboration among all ski resorts worldwide.

Insight Snowsports: At the 2019 Interski Congress in Pamporovo, we heard a lot about the growing power of tourists. What's your take on this?

Jonathan Ballou: In my world, everything revolves around the guest. As a manager for one of the largest ski companies in the US, the Aspen Skiing Company, the guest is king. The guest experience is paramount for us. But we can't offer that without nature. That's why the Environment Foundation was established in Aspen Snowmass 20 years ago. The purpose of this non-profit organization is to protect and preserve the region's ecosystems, provide educational opportunities, and mitigate the effects of climate change.

Guests nowadays have several ways to give feedback: rankings, reviews, social media, etc. How do you deal with this?

Jonathan: I value guest feedback the most. Every guest should tell me as much as they can. Positive feedback is wonderful and naturally makes me feel good. It's a compliment I can pass on to my employees. But growth doesn't happen if we only feel good about ourselves. Because one of my most important values—and that of my company—is excellence. Excellence arises from self-reflection and considering what I could do better for the guest. So it's not enough to only receive positive feedback; I also want to hear all the negative comments.

Jonathan Ballou, Aspen ski school director

What measures do you take to obtain and analyze feedback?

Jonathan: We monitor all our social media channels with qualified staff: Facebook, Instagram, TripAdvisor, etc. In addition, we send an online survey to every guest. Two days after a class or private lesson, we ask for very honest and direct feedback. We follow up on every negative and even neutral comment. We analyze the issues, want to bring the guest back, and try to rectify any problems that arose. We monitor this throughout the entire season to look for trends where our accuracy isn't quite right. This allows us to adapt our organization, our product, our prices, our customer service, and our brand to our guests' expectations—in fact, we can even exceed them.

That sounds like a lot of work, a lot of ambition.

Jonathan: Absolutely, but it's worth it. I'm very grateful to people for their positive feedback, but I also want the constructive and negative feedback.

Let's take a look into the future. Will the guest be even more powerful in 2025?

Jonathan: In the learning process, the guest is in control, because people usually learn a sport for themselves. There's no external reward for them. They don't want a medal, a promotion, or a qualification. As an organization that offers lessons, we can't dictate to our guests what they should learn or expect. Rather, we measure our success by whether the guest takes something meaningful away with them and has a good, enriching experience.

In other words, we as snow sports professionals enhance the guest experience. I and everyone else in our company firmly believe that better skiers and snowboarders have more fun. When you take lessons with us, you improve because you can do more things afterward. You're more relaxed, you can ski in different types of terrain, and so on. That's the measure of success. Not necessarily having the perfect technique, but enjoying it more. And most of the time, learning is simply the key to that enjoyment.

What does that mean in detail?

Jonathan: Skiing, snowboarding, telemark skiing, mountaineering, etc. – it's a lifestyle. The freedom, the experience, and the adventure are addictive. There's also a strong social component; it's about camaraderie and interpersonal experiences that can change your life. Then there are the very personal experiences and physical achievements on the mountain. And that's what we snow sports professionals make possible. But we have to tailor it very specifically to the guest's wishes and needs – and sometimes even to those wishes and needs that aren't explicitly expressed. Teaching is just a small part of what we do. It's the foundation, the basis. What we really do is create an experience for life.

This is a very holistic approach and underlines that so much happens behind the scenes and only a certain percentage is shown on stage.

Jonathan: Exactly. And the fact that you don't show everything is the real strength. You only show people what's important to them. You give them the experiences they want. As a professional, you have to hide a lot behind the curtain; you need a huge backstage area with all sorts of props for teaching. I'm lucky to have employees like that who have been with us for 25, 30 years. It's their life, their career.

To return to the guest's question in 2025: What kinds of experiences will we offer in the future?

Jonathan: What I'm getting at is—let's call it—"unlimited customer focus." What we sell is no longer a product in the traditional sense. Thirty years ago, we sold a technology. Just think about the skis you can buy today. When I started skiing in the early 1980s, the question was: Do I ski a slalom or a mountain bike, do I get the 1.95-meter or 2.01-meter version? That was my choice. Look at a shelf in a ski shop today. There's a slalom ski, a mountain bike, a recreational mountain bike, an all-mountain ski, a freeride ski, and so on. Plus variations like tip rocker skis and all sorts of widths. And with a slightly larger budget, you can get a ski that's been designed completely for you. That's a good analogy for where guided ski lessons need to go. We no longer sell group or private lessons, but rather a personalized experience that helps the guest improve in life. In this way, we must reach people and convey to them the endless possibilities of these sublime experiences.

How can this be implemented in reality?

Jonathan: Quite simply, by offering different start times. But also through new approaches to teacher training, where we explore a wide range of ways to make lessons engaging. Or through free online information before, during, and after the course. Customers today are much more informed and demanding. That's why we need to provide them with all the necessary details before the course even starts. Then people really know what they want.

So you're saying it's not about using more digital data and technological devices on the slopes? Like tablets where you can see each other while skiing?

Jonathan: That could be. Some tech tools are absolutely useful from an educational perspective. For example, being able to check what you're doing in real time. But it has to be quick, concise, and direct. Then it's actually beneficial. But I do wonder: Why do we go to the mountains? To spend more time on our phones and computers, or to immerse ourselves in nature? We should be experiencing the thrill of skiing and snowboarding, rather than being even more glued to our digital devices. We're already slaves to our smartphones. Being active in nature should take us away from our phones. The digital experience should enhance the adventure in the mountains, not the other way around.

At Interski, there were also presentations on the use of technologically advanced gaming tools, especially for younger people. What do you think about that? Jonathan: Our youth already experience the digital environment so intensely. The question is, how can we use that to bring them into the real and social world full of adventure, and not into the digital one? We need to create a symbiosis between these worlds. Our devices should liberate us, not enslave us.

You mean I do my online lessons at home and then say, "Great, that's exactly what I want to do!" Jonathan: In teacher training, this is one way that devices can support us. Are you familiar with the concept of the flipped classroom?

To be honest, no.

Jonathan: Okay, an example: When I was studying music at university, I attended the lecture "17th-Century Baroque Music." I listened and took notes. Afterward, I went back to my dorm room and did the "real work": learning, researching, and applying my knowledge. In other words, I received the information in a supervised environment and did the application in an unsupervised one. This whole process was backwards and a complete waste of the teacher's time. With the flipped classroom, we turn that on its head.

How do you apply that to ski instructor training? Jonathan: Anyone wanting to become a ski instructor receives the most important content online even before the course starts. We've now launched e-learning programs for almost all courses in the USA and New Zealand. When the students arrive for the course, they already have the information and can ask questions. This leaves more time for the actual training and practical application. The instructor no longer wastes their energy rambling on about theory at the edge of the slopes or in the seminar room. Furthermore, the students have to engage more with the instructor and connect with them – which is one of the most important skills in ski teaching. In this way, the students apply the material better than we did back then, when we only had traditional lectures. And that's how we achieve a higher standard in training.

What is the next step?

Jonathan: If we train better instructors, we can then implement that at the client level as well. So, recreational skiers receive the theory before they come to our course. As a snow sports professional, I don't want people coming to me and saying, "I need to spend time with Jonathan Ballou to find out what he knows." No, no, I want people who say, "Hey, that's exactly what I want to learn. I already know a bit about it, but I still need your expertise to improve in a specific area." Then we can use our two hours or three days on the slopes to work on precisely that. So, the client decides where they want to go, and as an instructor, I support them in achieving that goal. That way, the instructor's time is used optimally.

What are you taking home from Interski 2019?

Jonathan: A really important theme for me is that learning is valued more highly than teaching. And that the student's outcome and experience are more significant than the teacher's role. I'm a big believer in this. If we follow this principle, we will certainly become even more student- and guest-centered. And I hear this from almost every country – not in those exact words, but the gist of it. It's incredibly exciting. I've been to other Interskis where the focus was primarily on progress, pedagogy, and methodology. But now it's about experience – at different levels and with different national approaches.

Can you give some examples?

Jonathan: There are efforts to understand and assess the situation of ski students using insights from psychology and neuroscience. Or decision-making models that allow teachers to adjust their perspective according to the students' needs – keyword: interpersonal skills. Or approaches where the teacher isn't at the top of the hierarchy, but rather everyone is equal, which in turn positively influences group dynamics and learning. There were a lot of great ideas. Because, as we all know, the most important thing is that we inspire our guests to spend more time on the mountain and with us.

How do you see the future of snow sports in general? What are the most important things to look out for? Jonathan: I work for the Aspen Skiing Company. Officially, we compete with resorts like Vail, Courchevel, and so on. But that's not entirely true, because as an industry, we compete with everything else you can do. Skiing attendance figures are stagnating worldwide. That's not just a figure of speech; it's a fact. The US has the most skiers in the world, followed by France, Austria, Switzerland, and Italy. Each of these countries has seen stagnant numbers. And not just for the last three years, but for the last 40. Meanwhile, the population has grown by about 35 percent in those 40 years.

Visitor numbers are stable, but we're not seeing any increase. People are choosing other things. They're going on cruises, to the beach, or to amusement parks. Or they're spending their holidays at home playing on their smartphones. As an industry, we need to stick together and not fight against each other. We need to unite and compete against all the other activities. Personally, I love skiing and snowboarding. It's what I enjoy most – and I love doing it with other people.

How can the number of skiers worldwide be increased?

Jonathan: We can only succeed together. If one resort is successful and five others aren't, that's bad for the industry. Of course, that's good for that one resort – and its operators can be happy about it. But ultimately, it will affect them too if fewer people come overall. If one resort has to close, that's good for the remaining resorts in the short term, but in the end, it's bad for the entire industry.

Do you see a trend or technology on the horizon that will have a huge impact on the world of snow sports? Jonathan: There are a lot of developments out there, but I don't know which one it will be. I think better online access to information and more affordable ways to get involved in the sport will make a big difference. We also need to focus more on the emotional experience. It's not about the technical aspects, it's about the fun – that's the key. And when you ski better, you have more energy and enjoy it even more.

Do you have a message you'd like to share with the world of snow sports? Jonathan: The only thing more inspiring, more fun, and more addictive than skiing and snowboarding is skiing and snowboarding better. By conveying that, and the social aspects that come with it, we inspire future generations of snow sports enthusiasts to inspire others in turn. Sharing the sport is probably the only thing that brings more joy than doing the sport itself. Just think about what it's like to do sports with your best friend—it's just so much more fun when you can share those moments.